So, I’ve been playing with the Topping TP30 USB DAC and integrated T amp. You can find them at a number of ebay sites for under $100 shipped.
What do you get? You get an integrated low power T amp based on the tripath 2024 chip, along with a usb DAC based on the ubiquitous TI2704 and a single 12meg crystal. The specs as best as I can tell are 16/48 and the usb uses standard windows audio class 1 drivers. The Tripaths are well regarded as an efficient, but generally low power solution and the TI27xx series is considered a pretty solid usb DAC solution in the midrange for 16/48. Below you’ll find a higher resolution image if you’re so inclined. Just click on it…
Question is, how good is it? Is it relegated to the office, streaming background classical, or can it really play?
Well, a couple tests first.
Let’s look at FR using praxis and running 96k through the m audiophile card.
Well, not bad except for the rising high end. The output is measured into a high impedance load, with the input adjusted to give Vp of 2.85v. Yes, somewhat arbitrary, but repeat measurements at different gains show the same behavior.
(UPDATE-Note that the FR into a high impedance load doesn’t change based on level, but it does change based on load. See the FR measurements into multiple loads for a number of T amps at Michael Mardis’ site. Under load the FR flattens. You don’t have to worry about oscillation. However, into a 4 ohm load there is actually extra roll off in some of the T amps. So, I’ll repeat the FR into a 4 ohm load and into a couple of speakers to see what the real world FR would be.)
What about distortion? Below you’ll see two graphs. One is a measurement with the volume set all the way down, as the control, and the other with the gain adjusted to 5.6 Vp.
Is this good? Well, notice that the spikes are multiples of 60 Hz. The spikes turn out to be multiples of 60 Hz line frequency. It’s a problem with the power supply and filtering. The switching PS is very noisy. The distortion is improved by locating the unit as far away as the power supply as possible, but I suspect the distortion would be improved with a better PS. I’ll retest it with a car battery-I suspect the numbers will look much better.
How about peak V and distortion? Well, let’s look at it a different way, with a wavelet. This is a nice way of doing it because it’s not likely to destroy the unit, since the level can be gradually increased such that only a single cycle will clip.
Praxis allows you to window a sine wave. The stimulus is a blackman windowed 7 cycle sine wave of 1k. You can see the center peak wave clips at 12 volts, the power supply rail when driving a high load. The red curve is with a 5.6 ohm dummy load. You can see the rail/clipping sag to 11 volts. The moral of the story is that you have about 11 volts and 1.5-2 amps of usable voltage and current.
Physically it’s a good looking, well built unit. The volume control is quite smooth and linear, and it is very quiet unit in operation. It does have a bit of turn on thud though. Did I mention it’s only $94 shipped… Windows recognizes it instantly as a usb audio device and it becomes the primary sound output device. When unplugged, windows drops back to the prior sound device, so there don’t appear to be any software glitches. As an alternative to on board sound, with the right speakers (i.e. relatively high sensitivity, low impedance-I think a 4 ohm mtm, 90 dB sensitive, would be perfect) it’s an attractive budget solution. It definitely needs a better power supply. Or, just run it off a battery.
Feel free to post comments on what other tests you might like, what you think of these so far.
Mark,
Eek. That rising high end looks scary, not because of what you show on the graph, but because of what the mind’s eye extrapolates for higher frequencies! I would not like to see the response continue to rise, as this could make the unit prone to RF pickup or oscillation or other baddies. What do you think is happening up there? I wonder what kind of fix could cure this behavior?
Otherwise, this looks like a nice unit for the price. You get a high efficiency, physically small amp with modest power and a USB interface. Perfect for a set of computer speakers.
-Charlie
I agree. This rising response is undesirable. I think in it’s intended use, using the usb input, this won’t be a problem. But the concern for oscillation/positive feedback does exist.
I would like to say I was very impressed with the sound of the Topping TP30,
both as a stand alone DAC and as a Amp/Preamp combo.
I have amps that cost $8000.00 down to $1000.00 and Usher 719′s , Martin Logan
Request, Fritzspeakers, and others. This of course dose not sound as good as my $8000.00 amp pushing my Martin Logans BUT””’ it dose sound very good and it dose play them to normal music levels.
The dac sounds about as good as any $300.00 usb dac that you find at pacificvalve.com
and about as good as any high end amp in the $700.00 to $1000.00 range but wont play as loud.
I know this sounds to good to be true but if you go to 6moons.com that dose hi end audio reviews you will see that they use T-Amps with battery power to run high end speakers all the time, this is nothing new.
If you want to see a video with my TP30 running my martin Logans just leave me a note with your email and I will send you one.
In a weak or so I will put one up on youtube.
I bought this for work to run my Dayton 6″ B652 speakers and this makes a KILLER desktop system. I am going to order another because I ended up using this for one of my smaller systems at home.
Don’t get me wrong. I like this amp quite a bit. For under $100 shipped you get a very nice and complete package. It’s minimalist, but perfectly usable. Two inputs, a traditional aux and a usb. The usb DAC is a very solid, if a little dated performer. The preamp section is smooth. The case is very nice at this pricepoint and the form factor works well in an office, bedroom-anywhere a compact form factor is needed. The PC board is laid out very nicely. Compare its layout to some of the other inexpensive class D amps available. It would be nice if the tripath wasn’t so sensitive to load-and perhaps they could have done a bit better with the output filters and the power supply. Nonetheless I may buy another one.
dear Sir,
i am pretty novice in this area. I would like to have a 2 ch stero amp to drive my polk TSI 300, and wondering if topping TP30 or Tp60 can be a good choice.
presently I have Marantz Sr6004, which I want to dediacet for movies.
My understanding of topping product is its typically used for desktop systems or for small size rooms. is that right. my hall room size is 300 sq ft.
please suggest.
From the spec sheet, the tsi300′s are fairly sensitive. If you’re thinking of peaks in the 95-100 dB range, the tp30 would be fine. The tp60 gives some extra headroom-but I haven’t played with that so can’t comment. Incidentally, I have a marantz 6004 as well in my family room. It’s one of the few reasonably priced 2 hdmi out receivers out there. (Or was, when I was looking). Anyway, there is a slight chance that the tp30 won’t cut it if you want it LOUD, but it’s cheap and versatile enough that you’ll find some other use for it…
Very nice and informative write up. I like my TP30 a lot. I had a Trends TA10.1, which is another well respected Tripath TA2024 chip amp, and I couldn’t tell the difference between the two. I sold the Trends and kept the Topping because I liked the USB input, headphone output and the appearance of the Topping better.
Still, the power output is pretty meager, so you’ll want an efficient pair of speakers. I think it would have been better if they’d used the TA2020 chip.
Any suggestions for a good power supply? I’m not ready to go battery power just yet.
Hi Mark,
Did you ever test the TP30 with a different power supply and if so, what would you recommend?
I have not had the chance. It’s a low priority item. Any well regulated 12-14 volt, 4-5A should be sufficient.
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Thanks Mark! Would appreciate some advice if you’re willing to give it…
I’m looking at this amp and the Dayton DTA-100a to power a set of old B&W DM110s from my computer. It is a regular macbook and I was wondering if you thought I would benefit more from the DAC of the Topping T30 or whether the extra power of the Dayton would be more worth it. (offers up to 30 clean WPC)
The only specs I could find for my speakers are these:
impedance – 8.92 ohms
sensitivity – 87-89 dB
system resonance – 60hz
Thanks!
I haven’t heard the DTA so I can’t make a direct comparison. The Dayton would offer more power, but the rated sensitivity for the B&W’s is very good. The TP30 should be fine in a medium or small room.
Two Q’s. Can the TP30 be used with MAC OSX computers as effectively as with PC’s? Also, can it function as a pre-amp to drive self-amplified speakers, such as Mackies? (I notice it doesn’t have a line-out output; in fact, I don’t think any of the Toppings do.)
Much appreciate your input – thanks.
The Topping should work fine with a mac. It does not have a preamp out however.
I have one of these and am very happy with it, i would however like to run it using a linear power supply ( perhaps i can be happier ). Could you PLEASE ( down on my knees ) let me know what are the optimum volt amp levels to run this amp. I have looked around on the web but am getting nowhere but confused. I believe if you over do it its off to ebay for another one and as inexpensive as it is i dont want to have to go down that road.
ANY HELP here would be appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
Kevin.
PS. I think 12 v 4 a is looking favorite.
I think that a 12-14 volt 4 amp supply would be max for this unit.
Thanks, i now have a 13.8 v regulated bench supply. Set me back 22 Euro, the sound stage seems to be wider and deeper but i have had to fiddle with the sub settings a bit to compensate for the richness.
All the best.
Kevin.
Hi Mark. Thanks for the informative review. I just got this unit and I’m looking into replacing the power supply. I saw that you recommended any well-regulated 12-14V 4A but do you have a few suggestions? I have been google-ing around a bit but I’m still a novice in the audio field and would appreciate a recommendation. Thanks
Great write-up. Your write up and the additonal comments pretty much confirm my experience with the TP30. I’ve been using it for about a year attached to a ThinkPad with an older pair of Snell Type M monitor speakers. This is in an office environment. The result is truly fanstastic, detailed sound at all levels acceptable in an office – and then some!
The TP30 is small, handsome, silent and runs cool. The USB DAC works perfectly. The banana jacks make speaker connections quick and easy. My only tiny objection is with the orientation of the OFF / ON switch. Off should be the down switch position, not up.
Got another question for you mark. I would lik to use a better dac with my tp30, is the aux input analogue and does it bypass the internal dac?
Thanks in advance for your good advice and merry christmas to you and yours.
Kevin.
Anyone have any tips for loudspeakers to go with the TP30? I was wondering about Q Aucoustics 2010s (6ohm, rec power Recommended Power: 15 – 75w) or maybe some JBL Control 1 PROs (4 ohms).
What should I be looking for in speakers spec wise?
Since the amp is limited by the voltage rails, 4-6 ohms speakers would be a better match than 8 ohm. As far as the sensitivity, I think in general the higher the better depending on what kind of output you’re looking for. I’m not familiar with the Q Acoustics.
Question: I bought this to drive an Adcom power amp, not realizing it WAS a pwer amp. I just wanted the DAC and ability to plug my phono eq-preamp into the aux inputs. a) can I use the headphone outputs or voltage divide the power outs? b) can you recommend a better unit w/o the power outs in this price range?
whats about the Topping TP-D2 Portable Head AMP & USB DAC & sound card?
Sorry about the delay. Haven’t updated in a while. I don’t have first hand knowledge of any other Topping product, so can’t really comment.